Good morning.
I received three questions, and the three questions sort of overlap. So I thought I would try to combine them into one. That way I would not have to answer so many questions.
Maybe I will read them in a way that makes some degree of sense if I combine them together. I think I lost one of them, but I remember what it was. Oh, here it is.
“Dear Brother David, can you share your personal experience of how you have lived the life within the veil?”
Then there is another portion here that reads: “You talked about some of us remaining outside of the veil, even though Christ tore the veil open. What is it to remain outside of the veil, and what is it to enter through the veil?”
The last portion is: “How can we inspire the next generation to love the Lord and to live the life abiding in His presence?”
As I read the questions, I think they are mainly asking for a practical answer, perhaps an experiential one. But I did not want to begin there before pointing out several things from the Scriptures—not necessarily by referencing them directly.
There are two facts that cannot change, upon which these questions have to be based. The first is that the veil was torn in two from top to bottom. No one could do that but our Lord in His greatness. This veil is torn open, and that is a done deal. It is something we should be thankful for. It is a done deal for everyone who would come.
The second fact is that the only way we enter is by the blood of our Passover Lamb, and His blood is sufficient to cleanse us so that we can enter. We cannot get around these facts. These are facts.
We might ask, “Well then, what is the veil for?” Sometimes we feel that the enemy, even though the veil has been opened, tries to use smoke and mirrors to convince us somehow that we are not able to go through. I have had this happen to me many times.
We feel that there has to be some good that we have to do before we can go in. This is a double-edged dart from the enemy. On the one hand, if we think we have not done enough good, we think we cannot enter in. On the other hand, if we think we have done enough good, then we think we are qualified to enter in based on our own goodness.
The result is that, in one case, we do not go in; and in the second, we go in but receive nothing because we think we are hot stuff. I would like, in particular, to share my answer with some of the younger people, but in the context of what we have shared.
If we think about perhaps the worst person we could ever think of—a rapist, a pedophile, or a mass murderer—we might ask, “Is the veil open for them? Is the blood adequate for someone like that?”
The answer is, of course, absolutely yes. This is not speaking of lowering the bar for entering into the holy place, the Holy of Holies. It speaks of the greatness of the blood of our Lord Jesus. It is great.
Sometimes we might feel, “Look at all these things that I have done.” I know that as teenagers, in college, and beyond, there are always things that cause us to stumble. We might think that when these things happen, we are not qualified to enter in.
I remember one of my boys had a particular propensity for getting into trouble. We tried something once to help him: we got a calendar book. If he did well that day, we would give him a star. If he did not, he would not get a star. After a certain number of stars, he would get some sort of prize.
If we opened the calendar book for one particular week, he might have received a star one day, but another day we wrote, “You did not get a star because you threw Lego at your brother’s head.”
But if I showed my son that calendar and asked him, “What days of the week did your dad love you?” and he said, “Just on the days with the stars,” he would be so wrong.
We have to understand that the veil for us is torn and is a done deal. Not only that, but the blood of the Lord Jesus, no matter what we have done, is a done deal. It is great. These are facts for us.
No matter what the enemy tries to convey to us as we go through life, school, and college, these are facts. We cannot let them go. Sometimes we may even need to write them down and post them in front of our desk as we study, because the enemy is so active against that particular generation. We do not want ever to forget that.
The second part of the question is this: if the veil has been torn, why is it that sometimes we do not enter? Again, the fact of the tearing of the veil is there.
If the veil gets torn open, it is not as though there is a suction that automatically pulls us in. I cannot resist—like space.
The truth is that, just as the offering was made outside the veil, we have to choose to believe in the fullness and greatness of that offering made for us when the Lord Jesus died on the cross. We also, as we saw in the book of Hebrews, have to choose, even after we are saved, to live within the veil. We do not simply get sucked in.
The enemy puts up all these crazy barriers for us, knowing that if we do not live within the veil, our faith life just shrivels up. Essentially, the faith is there, but it becomes a stagnant, dead faith. The enemy is always putting up smoke and mirrors to prevent us from entering in.
For me, how did I first start on this journey? I hope it is okay with the Bruns sisters if I share a little of how the Lord was gracious to me in my life.
I am now forty years old. I came to know the Lord when I was, I think, about thirteen. When I was thirteen, I began to read the Bible every day, and I could say without a doubt that the Bible saved me.
I had this navy-blue Bible. If you turned to the Psalms, you would realize that I would draw a highlighter line to remind myself where I was, because I would wake up and have no recollection of anything I had read. There were days when I would just read one verse. The yellow lines would literally be after every single verse.
I did not spend a lot of time doing it, but in my heart I felt that it was important to do it. The strange thing that happens when we do that is that we start to find the Bible growing on us.
I would pray, but I cannot really remember what I prayed. Many times, I would go through the day not remembering whether I had read the Bible until I got home, opened it, and saw, “Oh, I did draw a line there.”
But by the Lord’s grace, as I did that, the Bible became more and more alive to me. I read the Bible every day from the age of thirteen until I was thirty-two. My second son was born around that time, and I remember falling asleep while reading to my first son, with some children’s book on my chest. So I skipped a day.
But really, for about twenty years, I read the Bible every day. Even when I was far away from the Lord, I felt I should do it.
I think what I learned was that, very practically speaking, any of us can enter within the veil at any moment. I mean, right now. The veil is open, the blood has been shed, and we can close our eyes or open our eyes and simply call out to the Lord. The accessibility is so easy.
I can tell you for sure that on Friday night, at eight o’clock, when I walked up to this podium and stood in front of everyone, I was within the veil. I was so nervous; my heart was pounding before I came up, and I was praying and praying.
I am so thankful because, even though people could see me and I was not physically behind a veil, in my heart I was within the veil.
The wonderful thing for us is that, as we go through the day, through school, and through whatever is happening in class, we can be within the veil. As we spend time in the Word and call out through the day, we can be hidden in the veil throughout the day.
Here are some things that were helpful to me, and perhaps they will be helpful to you.
When I used to take exams in college, sometimes I would get the exam and write at the bottom of the page, “LJIK.” This was after I knew the Lord was real. I would write “LJIK” at the bottom of every page, so that when I finished the page, I would see, “Lord Jesus Is King.”
Every test, I would do this. Some professors even asked me, “What is LJIK?” But I did it for no one else; I did it for myself. It was very helpful. It reminded me, whatever was going on, to be close to the Lord.
I did not know the term within the veil at the time, but I was growing, and I knew that I wanted to be near Him. When I studied at night, I would first read a verse from the Bible and pray, and then I would start studying.
I remember one time when I was twenty years old, taking organic chemistry. In organic chemistry, you are supposed to get from one thing to another by using all these little chemical reactions. I sat there for so long trying to do it, and I could not figure it out.
Then I remember the Lord stirring me in my spirit and saying, “You know, I invented this.” So I prayed, “Lord, can You show me how to do this?” The very next time, I got it. I was literally in shock.
It was one of those experiences of faith, then a test, and then faith. What ended up happening was that I became a tutor in organic chemistry. It speaks of the faithfulness of our Lord.
The main point I would like to share, especially with those of you in college, is that the Lord is extremely real, and He is waiting for us to reach out to Him. It does not have to be through some fancy or huge thing.
It would be good for us, first of all, to go to sleep early—which is already hard to do when you are in college. But if you can go to sleep early, the mornings are much more alive. We can spend some time in the Word, then go through the day and live within the veil, meaning that we sense His nearness.
It is very real. Strangely, over time, we start to get used to having Him around. When He is not around, you sense it.
I remember going out on a date with a woman who was not a Christian. I was twenty-two years old, and I could sense that He was not with me. It made me feel terrible.
I had a CD changer in the back of my car. Nowadays it is no big deal, but back then it was a big deal. I had hymns in the CD changer, and I took them all out and put in other CDs. I could sense that the Lord was not in the car with me.
The next day, someone broke into my car and stole the CD changer. I did not regret it at all. I told my wife that I wished I had left one Christian CD in there, so it could be the gospel through theft. I did not.
But, brothers and sisters, what the Lord showed me is that after a while you get used to having Him around, and when He is not there, you feel that sense of void. It is very real.
Another aspect of living within the veil is that I think the Lord knows very well when we need a reminder. Difficult things happen in our lives.
I can say that in the difficult times of my life, I was very near to Him. I think most of us can share similarly: in difficult times, we draw near, whether it is an exam that is coming up or preparing for a message when you do not know what the topic means.
In these moments, we draw very near to the Lord. It is amazing how the Lord speaks. Sometimes I would go to sleep at night praying about something I knew He wanted to communicate, something important that I did not quite understand.
In the morning, I would wake up because He had explained it. I would immediately try to write it down so that I would not forget. It is very wonderful.
A couple of months ago, we were speaking in San Diego for a conference. I had prepared one message, then called the brothers the night before to ask which day I was speaking. My wife sent a text, and they replied with something like Saturday morning and Sunday evening. I thought it was just one meeting, and it was the day before.
I cannot go to a conference without being prepared, so I was nervous. But the Lord was so gracious that, the night before the message, He put it all together at four o’clock in the morning. My wife was praying, I was praying, and it all came together.
I think we go into the veil, the Lord meets us, and then He has access to us. The best way I can describe it is that He can stir us in the spirit throughout the day and say, “Come back in. You are kind of wandering away.”
Before we came to this conference, I was taking care of work matters. There was one important thing I had to do, but I had forgotten it. I was driving home to come to the conference, and by the time I left work, my mind had turned off from work.
I was using Siri and trying to call my wife. I said, “Call Chening Peng.” Instead, it came up with the name of the person I was supposed to call for work—the person I had forgotten about.
For a moment, I could have thought it was a coincidence, but I knew better than that. This was the Lord. Once we get used to living near Him, He begins to have access to our lives. He does all these things.
Some people might say it was coincidence, but I know much better than that. He does it so regularly that, after a while, you just know He is taking care of us.
I hope I answered that question from my personal experience. But my true hope is that those of you who are in high school and college would give Him access to your lives and spend time with Him.
If you need a reminder through the day, use something like my LJIK reminder, or whatever you choose to use. Remind yourselves that we are walking through the world, but our home is not in the world. Remind yourselves of your home.
That is all. I hope that answered the questions.
I also have a few questions given to me. But first of all, as usual, I always think that “questions and answers” is not really a correct term.
Men can only answer something technical, but only God can answer anything that is real and spiritual. If you are really hoping to get a right answer—a living answer—man cannot give it to you. God alone is able, and He is ready to answer your question if you seek Him.
All we can do is give you a little help, encouraging you to go to God yourself.
Whenever we have a question, the easiest way to solve it, as it were, is to go somewhere and ask the question. But spiritually speaking, the real answer to all your questions can only come from God.
If you do not seek the Lord yourself, you may hear many people telling you what to do, but you are still outside the veil, so called.
I hope, brothers and sisters—not that you should not ask any questions—but that you will put your hope in your fellowship with the Lord instead of trying to depend on other people.
The spiritual way is an inward way of life; it is not an outward way. Unfortunately, Christianity usually leads us into that outward way. It gives us commands, rules, and regulations—things we ought to do and things we ought not to do.
But, brothers and sisters, the only way for us really to grow spiritually is to go to the Lord ourselves and seek Him.
I am glad because usually, when we have a question-and-answer period, most questions are technical. But thank God, all the questions we have received this time are practical, not technical. I see that as a great improvement.
It seems that all the questions are centered around one thing. One university brother asks, “Can brother share how to enter into the reality of living continually, moment by moment, by faith? Can you share some of your experience?”
Brothers and sisters, it is the will of God that we should live continually by faith, because Christian life is a life of faith. But how can we live continually by faith?
Oftentimes, when we encounter a problem, our first reaction is, “How should I meet that situation?” Usually, we use our own strength, wisdom, and understanding.
But thank God, He is teaching us. When we use what is our own, we cannot get through our problem. Only when we cannot get through our problem do we begin to turn to God and look to Him. That is the time when He teaches us.
We thank God that He has not only saved us and cleansed us from all our sins, but more than that, we know that He lives in us. He is our life.
Who is it that helps us grow in Christ, to grow in spiritual life? Thank God, He also makes provision.
When we believe in the Lord Jesus, it is more than having our sins forgiven. That is negative. Positively, Christ comes into our heart, dwells there, and becomes our life.
But more than that, God provides the Holy Spirit. As we believe in the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit also comes to us and dwells in our spirit.
So the question is: what is the ministry of the Holy Spirit? The Lord has accomplished all the work of salvation, but who shows us the way and helps us grow in Christ Jesus, so that the life of Christ may grow within us?
It is not mainly by our own methods and efforts. It is by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
In 1 John 2:27, we find that we have the anointing. The Holy Spirit dwells in you, and He is there in you to be responsible for your growth and for your abiding in Christ.
The Holy Spirit will teach us in all things, big things and small things. Usually, in big things we ask God; in small things, we do it ourselves. But, brothers and sisters, the Holy Spirit teaches us in all things, big and small.
If you obey the teaching of the Holy Spirit, you abide in Christ. Or, to put it another way, you live within the veil.
As soon as we are saved, the Holy Spirit begins to work in our lives. But we need to learn to be quiet before the Lord so that we can hear His still, small voice.
He does not come in thunder. He comes with a still, small voice.
I believe every brother and sister has had such an experience. After you believe in the Lord Jesus, something happens. When you are talking, doing things, or going somewhere, a still, small voice begins to speak to you. If you are quiet enough, you will hear Him.
Usually, what He speaks to you is against your personal, natural life. That is where the cross is. That is where we learn to take our cross, follow the voice of the Spirit of God, and let Him have His way.
When you do that, Christ will increase within you. Through the Holy Spirit, we really learn to live by faith, or to live within the veil.
When the Holy Spirit begins to work, He works in two ways. Inwardly, there is the revelation of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals to us what is of God and what is not of God.
Outwardly, we call it the discipline of the Holy Spirit. It is not a Scriptural term, but it is a practical term. The Holy Spirit arranges our environment.
I will not say that for an unbeliever, but for a believer, everything that happens to us is not by chance. It is the Holy Spirit who arranges our environment: the people we meet, the things that happen to us—everything.
He loves us so much. As the Bible says, even the very hairs of your head are numbered—not only counted, but numbered. So when you comb your hair in the morning, hair number so-and-so may fall down. That is the love of God.
The Holy Spirit arranges all your circumstances. Through these circumstances, together with the revelation from within, we enter into a life of faith and enter into the veil.
I like to use the example of Hudson Taylor. To the Chinese, Hudson Taylor means a great deal to us because he was used by God to open up inland China.
In the beginning, when the gospel came to China, it was all in the treaty ports and places, because they were protected by their governments. But Hudson Taylor was the first one who penetrated into inland China.
We remember how he formed the China Inland Mission. He had already been working in China for a few years, but personally and spiritually speaking, he was not satisfied.
He found himself easily worried with all the responsibility. Of course, that was all natural. He did not feel that he had an overcoming life.
He sought the Lord earnestly. He read the Bible, fasted, and prayed. As he was doing that, the thought came to him: “If I only can abide in Christ, then I will be able to come into rest.”
So he struggled to abide in Christ, to get into Christ, until one day the Holy Spirit opened his understanding.
He was reading John 15, and the Holy Spirit reminded him: “You are trying to get into Me, but I am the vine, and you are the branch. You are already in Me.”
A branch does not need to ask to be connected with the vine. That is ridiculous. The branch is already in the vine, and the vine is in the branch. Everything that is Christ’s is yours. Believe it.
Hudson Taylor’s whole life was changed. Even in his old age, during the Boxer Uprising, many missionaries, especially those in the China Inland Mission, sacrificed their lives. Hudson Taylor was weak and sick, resting in Europe when the news came.
Brothers and sisters, he found peace in his heart.
Instead of using my own experience, I use his experience to show us that, as we listen to the still, small voice and learn to cooperate with the Holy Spirit, we will be led into this life of faith. Or, to put it another way, we will be living within the veil.
As far as experience is concerned, I have to add this: Christian experience seems to follow our temperament.
We are built with different temperaments. Some people are quick; some are slow. Some are introspective; some are outgoing. Our temperaments are different.
Thank God, when the Spirit of God is working, it seems to me that He works along with the temperament.
Sometimes we hear people having great experiences, experiences that change their whole life. Because of that, we look for such experiences.
But people are different. Some people go through great experiences in their lives. Other people do not have great experiences, but gradually enter into spiritual experience. When you look back, you have already crossed the Rubicon.
Do not look for great experiences. Look to the Lord, and in His timing He will bring you over to live within the veil. As you look back, you will see that something has happened.
Living by faith and living in the presence of the Lord are the same thing, because faith looks to the Lord.
As Hebrews says:
Looking unto Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith.
Living in the presence of the Lord, living in the Holy of Holies—yes, it is the same thing.
Here is a similar question: “Does living by faith have corporate aspects? If so, how do you practice entering into its reality?”
Brothers and sisters, even though we are called separately, we are called into the one body of Christ. So you never stop at a personal level. You have to learn to be a member of the body of Christ.
Whatever spiritual experience God may bring you into, He has no intention of making you a spiritual statue by yourself. Whatever experience He gives to you is not just for yourself; it is for the body of Christ.
We cannot separate ourselves from the body of Christ.
As far as practical life is concerned, I have known people who are together with God’s people. But when you gather with other brothers and sisters, not everyone is totally Christ. Many of us are still ourselves, with only a little bit of Christ. If that is the case, there are bound to be problems.
People will step on you. People may even misunderstand you.
To be with your brothers and sisters, you may think you are in paradise, but actually you are not. I think the place where you suffer most is in the church.
If you have suffered enough in the world and now believe in the Lord Jesus, you may think that being in the church means you are in heaven, and now everything will be rosy. Brothers and sisters, do not be deceived.
Life in the church is difficult. If it were all Christ, there would be no problem. But our problem is that there is more of us than of Christ.
That is why living so closely together in the body of Christ is difficult as far as the flesh is concerned. But it is a good training ground. God uses your brothers and sisters to purify you.
Whatever we learn in Christ is to be practiced in the church. Do not be disappointed when you are offended by your brothers and sisters. Continue with them. Love them. Forgive them. Show Christ to them, until you become a supply to the body of Christ.
That is the practice of entering into the reality of being one body in Christ.
Here is a third question: “You remember that Abraham’s faith grew over time, despite his taking his father along and Lot as his crutch. Can you share from your own experience how the Lord taught you in the matter of growth in faith? Can you also share what is the secret of becoming an overcomer?”
Brothers and sisters, I have to confess that my experience is very small. I am still learning. But thank God, He is faithful.
We all make mistakes in the walk of faith. But mistakes should not hinder us. If we really have a heart for the Lord, the Lord will turn our mistakes into blessings.
That was Abraham. Abraham was the father of faith, but he had to grow to become the father of faith. In the beginning, he was not completely of faith.
When God called him, he consulted with men, and the result was that his father took the lead. While he was in Haran, God was silent. But thank God, after his father died, God spoke to him, and he followed.
But at that time, he had taken Lot with him. It was only by the grace of God that God separated Lot from him. So you find that in the life of Abraham, the father of faith grew into it.
As long as your hearts are open to the Lord, as long as you are willing to confess your failure and allow the Holy Spirit to lead you and guide your steps, faith is something that grows.
Gradually, you begin to understand the secret of an overcomer.
The secret of the overcomer, as we have already mentioned briefly, is found in Revelation 12:11:
And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb,
and because of the word of their testimony;
and they loved not their life even unto death.
That is the secret. It is the blood of the Lamb. We will never be able to outlive the blood. The closer you are to God, the more you need the blood of the Lamb, because you see more.
But the blood of the Lamb is always available.
There is also the word of our testimony. We have a testimony: it is the testimony of Jesus. We are here to testify of Jesus before the world.
If we really learn to live for Christ, the word of our testimony is powerful. You remember in the book of Acts, when Paul was in Ephesus, there were seven sons of a Jewish chief priest named Sceva. They were exorcists.
They used words to try to drive out evil spirits. When they saw Paul successfully casting out demons, they tried to use the same formula. They tried to drive out demons by saying, “In the name of Jesus whom Paul preaches.”
But you find that the demons overcame them. In other words, if it is really in your life, then when you speak the word, it is effective. That is the word of our testimony.
If you really live by Christ, when you use the name of the Lord, He will own it.
And you love not your soul-life even unto death. You are willing to take up your cross and follow the Lord. This is the secret to being an overcomer, and it is an open secret.
You know it. If you practice it, then you overcome.
May the Lord help each of us. Of course, we are not perfect yet. We are all learners, and hopefully we will continue to learn until we see Him face to face. May God bless you.
So, in the distillation process, it comes down that they gave me about five questions. Some obviously belong to our brother Stephen, others perhaps to David, and they are left to me. I do not know how much time we have, but I want to share the things I feel I probably should.
We want to begin with the biggest question I received: “Can you explain the idea of camps? Am I a prophet?”
Of course, the reference in our Bibles is Hebrews 13:12-13:
Wherefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered without the gate.
Let us therefore go forth unto Him without the camp, bearing His reproach.
For we have not here an abiding city, but we seek after the city which is to come.
The command of the Spirit here is focused on coming out to Him. This is our life as Christians. With Him as our King, we need to follow the King wherever He goes. That is the key issue. If it involves going outside the camp, so be it. Will we follow the Lord?
For context, we find in Jesus’ parables in Matthew 13 a reference that is applicable here. In Matthew 13:31-32, Jesus says:
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
which indeed is less than all seeds; but when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becometh a tree,
so that the birds of the heaven come and lodge in the branches thereof.
The Lord appears and reveals Himself to men, as He did to the children of Israel and when He came to Jerusalem. When He is lifted up, men are drawn unto Him.
When our God appeared to the children of Israel on Mount Sinai, He gathered His people around Himself. They became the camp of Israel. They traveled through the wilderness, traveling and stopping according to the Lord’s cloud and fire.
Wherever they stopped, they erected the tabernacle in the middle, and all the tribes gathered around the tabernacle as ordered by the Lord. This was the sojourning life of the children of Israel.
The writer of Hebrews was speaking to Hebrew Christians—Christians of Jewish background. The problem was that, outwardly, they still had a connection to the old camp, the camp of Judaism.
Jesus came to that camp as the Messiah. He spoke in Jerusalem. He took over the temple, as it were, and drove out the money changers. He claimed His kingship there.
The disciples loved the camp. Just before the end, the week before Jesus went to Calvary, they said, “Look at the temple. Is it not beautiful?”
There was much in the camp of Israel at that time that was beautiful. There were beautiful songs written by David, still sung by the choirs of the Levites. There were offerings and feasts. There was the beauty of the temple itself, the beauty of the Day of Atonement, and the joy of the Feast of Tabernacles. There was so much that made you want to be part of the camp.
But the camp becomes corrupted by man. What started as a gathering around the vital, living presence of a living God at Mount Sinai became a camp controlled by men.
At the time of Jesus, the high priest was appointed by the Roman government. Think about that. The whole system was corrupt.
A camp loves to become permanent. I do not know whether you like camping. I grew up with three boys, and we went camping all the time—well, three times. The fourth time my wife said, “Next time we camp, it is at the Holiday Inn.”
She does not like camping, pitching tents, and all that rough stuff. But no matter how much you like a camp, man is interested in self-perpetuating that camp.
Eventually, the camp opposes the Lord. They crucified Jesus outside the gate of the city of Jerusalem and, spiritually speaking, outside the camp.
What do you do? There is a lot of religious activity going on in the camp: love for the law, study of the Word of God, meeting in synagogues, and all of that.
But our Lord Jesus rose from the dead and said, “I am King of a kingdom. Come, follow Me.”
In order to follow Him, these Hebrew Christians had to move outside Judaism. Whatever the religious feeling of home, whatever the tradition, whatever the history—Jesus said, “Leave it if you are going to follow Me. You will have to put your complete trust in Me.”
The writer of Hebrews is exhorting the children to move outside the camp.
We might think that this does not apply to Christians, but unfortunately, our first application is quite obvious.
God made Jesus, as He tabernacled among us, the builder of the church. First of all, the church is not a camp; it is the body of Christ. It is a living organism. You cannot campify it.
The church needs to dwell in various places, but it is not to be a camp with emphasis on outward things. It is to be a life lived with the Lord in living faith.
If the Lord is not in the midst and if the Lord is not ordering, it becomes a camp over time. The church began as the body of Christ and followed its Lord in such a way that it was not called “the church” by most people. It was called “the people of the Way.”
They were following the Lord in a new and living way. But eventually, the church became like the mustard seed planted in the ground: it grew and grew and grew until it became a huge tree.
If you understand Bible typology from the Old Testament, especially Daniel, this large tree with birds lodging in it represents a human kingdom. This was a picture of Nebuchadnezzar in the book of Daniel: a huge kingdom, with evil birds in its branches, which would be chopped down by the Lord.
As man gets hold of the camp, this is the application of Matthew 13: disciples may love the outward form of the camp, but something has gone wrong. Man has made it his kingdom and corrupted that which began with living faith.
Do you think the disciples understood that when Jesus spoke it to them? Did they understand that He was talking about Judaism and all the accoutrements surrounding them? They were fully part of that system.
It was only after the Spirit came down upon them that they saw the Jews were hostile toward them. At first, they thought they were Jews. Soon they realized, through the preaching of Stephen the martyr, that the Jews, as a camp, always rejected the God who was moving.
When you look at the church today in its largest perspective—as Christendom—it has become a huge camp. There is a Christian camp. When most people say, “What is a Christian?” they think of this huge Christian camp: Catholics, Protestants, non-denominational believers, Pentecostals, and all kinds of camps. They say that is the church.
No. The church is the body of Christ. The Lord would have His people live in this body, where living faith can be expressed and a living Lord can speak as the Head of His church.
Once you are in a camp, it becomes a hindrance to walking with the Lord in victory in the kingdom.
I say this as one who, like a number of you, was a dyed-in-the-wool camper. I was the pastor of a Baptist church, a missionary, with a halo screwed onto my head.
Even while I was in the camp, I could see things were wrong because the camp was making me do things that I was neither called nor gifted to do. But that was my job. When you are in the camp, you have a job. As a pastor, I had a job.
While I was in the camp, to make a long story short, I began to hear strange messages from outside the camp. I started reading books from outside the camp—books by Watchman Nee, published outside the camp.
Some Baptists would surreptitiously hand them to me in the dark shadows of a church-building corner: “Here, read this.” I read The Normal Christian Church Life. I thought, “Wow, this will never work here,” so I let it go.
Then I started hearing more voices outside the camp. It was God’s mercy. These voices made sense, but this was my camp.
Finally, I was poisoned by my brother Lance Lambert, and then destroyed with the death-knell blow by my brother Stephen Kaung.
There I was, a pastor in a camp down in North Carolina. There was a Bible study on the other side of town, and our brother Stephen would go there once a month and speak a couple of times.
I loved Watchman Nee’s books. They were the best non-camp books I could discover. But I could not see until, as David said, I came one day into the house of God, and suddenly I saw this life lived under the King.
To tell you the truth, I was in England at Halford House, where Lance Lambert was. I walked in there, and my life as a pastor in the camp was over.
I saw it: “Where am I?” When you are in the camp, it all makes sense because the camp has a line. To be a good camper, you must do this. I was happy in the camp until I heard the truth.
Then I realized that we could not follow the Lord, even if we wanted to, in the way we were set up. So what was I to do?
People came to me while I was wrestling with what to do. They said, “You know what you should do? Change your camp and make it like that.” But it was impossible. The camp was already set up. The camp liked camping that way.
Finally, the Lord said, “Do you want to know more of Me? See Me as your Head, your Lord, and your King. Follow Me outside the camp. Go.”
I got physically sick for three months. I lay in bed and read books on living outside the camp, while I was stuck and sick inside the camp. Then, one day, I went over to that little house group and said, “The Lord wants me here.”
The irony was that the people in that little house group knew me as a pastor from the camp. They were sure I was some kind of Pied Piper or that I was up to something nefarious.
One Sunday, my wife watched with amazement as I tore up my ordination papers—the nice parchment that the Baptists give you. I tore them up and said, “I am Brother Dana. Do not call me Reverend.”
None of those people would ever have called me Reverend. It was just my own fanciful histrionics. I sat down, and they said, “Welcome, brother.”
Then they would not allow me to do anything. I could not even play my guitar. I sat there and joined them in worship. I could pray with them, of course, but they would not let me speak.
It was a good thing, because I would probably have been speaking messages that were half warmed over from the camp. If you have ever had camp food warmed over, it does not quite work.
They said, “No, no, no. Just be part of this gathering.” I asked, “What are you?” They said, “We are not sure, but we are under our Head, and we want to follow the Lord wherever He goes. We are learning what we are in Him.”
So I began to meet people who lived outside the camp. But more wonderfully, I began to meet the Lord and to hear what His purpose was.
I had been serving in the camp as best I could. Let us get it right: people serve the Lord in the camp all the time. But I was not serving according to purpose because I did not even know what it was.
I was saving souls, counseling people, marrying and burying, and breaking up fights—what any good pastor would do.
People say that from the time of Malachi until the time of the gospel, the Lord never spoke. That is not really true. We do not have Scriptures from that period, but the Lord still spoke. There were souls waiting for the consolation of Israel, prophets raised up, and works of God through the Maccabees and other events.
But nothing was done according to purpose. Camp activities are a way to perpetuate the camp, and of course, to serve the Lord.
But when I stepped outside the camp, I experienced life. I am so glad I am not a camp guy. Maybe there is still something the Lord is tweaking out of me—some camp stuff, some Baptist histrionics, whatever it is.
The real question is this: what is your camp?
There is a cost involved in following the Lord wherever He goes, and only you can answer that question.
Once you get deeply enough into the camp, you cannot hear the Lord in terms of purpose anymore. There are a lot of camps that are quite satisfying.
I know people who lived and fellowshipped under the Lord outside the camp, but there is a cost. Our brother was sharing about assembly life and living by faith in the assembly. There is a lot of patience and a lot of the cross involved, and many people do not like that.
Some people get disappointed because those who follow the Lord outside the camp are usually a pretty gangly gang. They are not the best. Many came out because they had a strong will, and then they collide with one another.
If you live with them long enough, you may be disappointed. You may say, “Things ran more smoothly back there in that camp. If I go back, I can get great preaching. They pick the best preachers.”
The music in the camp—forget the music outside the camp. Outside, there may be two guys with a tin horn, always playing off-key, and people asking for their favorites every week. You may get sick and tired of the same song we sing every week.
In the camp, you get an orchestra and a symphony of music that opens your heart. A camp can be so nice.
But the Lord says, “Follow Me.”
Whatever that means in your camp, I am sure there is a price to be paid.
Brother, in our faith journey, most of the time we have no doubt that God is able, but we doubt whether God cares—just like Martha.
The question refers to John 11:21-22, where Martha said, “Lord, if Thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.” Does Martha lack faith or knowledge of God?
It is actually a good question. Here is our problem: all of us are a fallen coin, and we are stamped on two sides. One side is pride, and the other side is total insecurity.
We think God is stamped like us: “I do not think God likes me. I do not think God really cares.” I do not think that is what Martha thought. I think that is what we think.
Some people say, “I know God could take care of me, but I wonder if He really cares.” Where does that come from? It comes from the tail side of the coin of your insecurity.
We have been alienated from God and from people in our fallen condition for so long that we are totally insecure—except for those moments when we flip the coin over and become full of pride. For the rest of our lives, we cycle between these two things, and the Lord has to deal with us on either hand.
But here is the real question: Martha had faith in Christ, but she did not have a large enough Christ.
Martha had faith in Jesus the healer, but she did not know Jesus as the resurrection and the life. Of course, she was disappointed, because the healer only works if you are still alive.
“Lord, if You had only been here, then You could have been who we know You are.” Jesus said, “Now I have come so that you can learn who I really am.”
“Do you believe I am the resurrection and the life?”
“Oh yes, yes. I mean, one day, I think, when—”
“No, no, no. Not one day. Now. Faith. Resurrection and life.”
This is an example of what we were talking about last night—how our faith is in measure. The Lord always has to increase, but it increases as we come humbly to Him and say, “Lord, I am disappointed in You. I thought You were the healer. You did not show up.”
The Lord says, “My child, I am much more than that.”
How many of us have been disappointed? We had a moment of tragedy. We thought the Lord would come through, but He did not come through. Something broke up, something was busted, something happened.
“Lord, where were You? Where were You? If only You had been here. You are the One who fixes things.”
We come to Him like that, and He says, “Now you get to discover Me in greater measure. I am the resurrection of things that have been completely destroyed. Watch what I can do.”
He is always showing us more of Himself, if we come to Him honestly and say whatever it is.
Whether Martha doubted that Jesus really cared, I have a hard time with that. Martha and Mary knew that Jesus loved Lazarus. But Jesus was up to something greater.
So we follow and learn these humble lessons of how great a God we have in Christ Jesus—our all-sufficiency.