Testimony Ministry LogoChristian Testimony MinistryCTM
  • Home
  • Speakers
  • Venues
  • Topics
  • Scripture
  • Fellowship Finder
THAT THE WORD OF THE LORD MAY RUN AND BE GLORIFIED
About CTMContact CTMPrivacy PolicyRelated Ministries
    Leadership Questions and Answers #1 - The Church and The Work © 2026 Christian Testimony Ministry
    0:00
    Leadership Questions and Answers #1 - The Church and The Work
    Leadership Questions and Answers #1 - The Church and The Work
    Kaung, Stephen

    The Heavenly Pattern and the Living Reality of Christ

    We went to England to look for traces of the Brethren movement. We saw a great deal, but we also carried away a heavy feeling. In the past, the Lord used many brethren greatly, including John Wesley, George Müller, the Moravians, and the brethren in Norwich.

    Yet the conditions today, compared with the past, are far inferior. Even when Christian Chen and I went there, the condition was very poor. A leading brother among them said something that caused our hearts to sink: “This place has a lot of notoriety. Gorbachev came here when he visited England, and after the Second World War a great convention was held here.”

    We had gone there seeking evidence and traces of the Lord’s work, but what we saw were things totally disconnected from the Lord’s work. We thought that, as workers, we were bringing brothers and sisters to walk this path together. We thought that what we had received must be the same as what the brethren had received in the past.

    But we did not understand why the Lord allowed this to happen. We saw evidence of things that the Lord had done in the past, but they had fallen into disarray. It caused our hearts to sink, and we wondered what had happened.

    Renewal and Reconsideration

    This morning Stephen mentioned that we need to review what the Lord has shown us, how He gave it to us, and how we need to follow Him. It is indeed true that we need to be renewed—not only the workers, but also the brothers and sisters in the church.

    We all need renewal. Otherwise, gradually, we may walk slowly to the point where we come to nothing. We also went to Moravia to see the Moravian brethren, and their condition was also very poor.

    I am sharing this feeling to echo Brother Stephen’s call for review and reconsideration. We do need to come before the Lord and reconsider.

    The Work of God Through Faith

    John 6 speaks of the work of God. The question is, “What must we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered that the work of God is to believe in Him whom God has sent.

    “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
    —John 6:29

    I read this passage many years ago, but I did not understand it. Even now, I do not claim to understand it fully. If all I need is to believe in the Lord, then why should I meet, preach the gospel, come to the meetings, clean, and do many other things?

    Then in John 14, the Lord says that those who believe in Him will do the works that He does, and even greater works, because He goes to the Father. He taught people, healed people, and cast out demons. What kind of work are we to do?

    The first point is that God’s work is God’s work. Our natural concept is always to do something. Whenever we hear the word work, we think of doing something. But Scripture tells us clearly that God’s work can only be done by God Himself. We are altogether unable to do God’s work.

    Our believing is God’s work. Because we believe in Him, He works in us; and what He has accomplished is worked out from within us. It is still God working, not us.

    The Lord said, “What I do, ye shall do also; and greater works than these shall ye do; because I go unto the Father.” When our Lord was on earth, He was one individual Person, doing a preparatory and foundational work. Without His foundational work, it would be impossible for us to build upon it.

    But when He went to the Father, He became our great High Priest and poured forth the Holy Spirit, who indwells us. In this way, the work of Christ can be expressed through His Body. This may be what is meant by the greater works.

    The Church as God’s Central Desire

    A question was raised concerning outreach to Chinese immigrants in an English-speaking country. If one’s burden is Bible teaching for Chinese people, what should one do in order to preserve the church as the testimony of the Body of Christ?

    This question arises from an inability to distinguish the relationship between the church and the work. The church does not exist for the work; rather, the work exists altogether for the church.

    A person may pay attention to gospel work, but fail to see that God’s heart’s desire is the church—not merely a certain kind of work. We cannot say that such work is wrong. There is a need for work, and many faithfully carry it out. But if that is all there is, it falls short of God’s eternal purpose.

    We need what Paul called a heavenly vision. Without this vision, we may simply try to meet certain needs, but that is not the real building of the church.

    If the Lord has shown a brother or sister something, that person should first pray that the Lord will open the eyes of the other brothers and sisters so that they may see God’s full counsel. They should not remain occupied only with a burden for a particular people or work.

    On the other hand, the one who has seen something should share concerning the church. If the Lord has shown you something, then you need to teach and fellowship with other brothers and sisters. But this does not mean that others must listen simply because you have shared. If they do not listen, you should not become angry.

    We should fellowship as much as we can. Yet the only One who can open our eyes to see is God Himself. Man cannot do anything at all in this matter.

    I remember that T. Austin-Sparks told me personally that, when God showed him His eternal purpose, he was a preacher in the Baptist denomination. He began to share and fellowship with others. After one year, only one brother had been gained—only one had truly been captured and opened.

    So we know that spiritual things can only be done by God Himself, through the Holy Spirit. If God has shown us something, we need to be faithful and humble in fellowshipping with our brothers and sisters. We should never feel that what we have seen makes us superior to others.

    Each Generation as a First Generation

    Spiritual things have no second generation. Every generation must be a first generation before the Lord. The Lord’s work through John Wesley, George Müller, the Moravian brethren, and others continues to have an unseen influence upon later generations.

    We often want to see physical evidence, but we should understand that the effect of the Lord’s work does not necessarily remain with the original people or in the original place. Even we have received something of the influence that these brethren left behind, though their original groups may seem to have disappeared.

    Today we face the same problem. We must be watchful when we work. We should not seek our own second generation. Rather, we should expect the young people whom we serve to become a first generation before the Lord.

    God must do His proper work in every generation. As we move into the twenty-first century, we cannot simply copy what the Lord did in the eighteenth century. In this century, the Lord has His own word and His own work for the young people today.

    We can only do what the Lord has committed to us today. We cannot be responsible for future history. Perhaps the Lord will be merciful, and what we do may last for a long time, though it may not remain as visible evidence for people to see.

    The Need for Patience and Fellowship

    Some people are open, while others are closed. Some think that what they have seen is everything, and when you fellowship with them, they cannot receive anything from you. But if someone is open, then you can see God’s grace coming upon that person.

    Therefore, if a brother or sister lives in such a situation, first learn to be patient. Second, pray before the Lord, asking that the Holy Spirit will guide you concerning how to walk the path before you.

    We should not limit our eyes to a small group. We cannot force people to follow the Lord, but there are many of God’s children who do have a heart for Him.

    For example, when we were in Minnesota, we had very little. We had read some books by the brethren and later went to Richmond. Gradually, a group of brothers and sisters rose up to follow the fellowship. Even older brothers came among us and asked, “How did you discover such a thing? Why are you willing to follow in this way?”

    There are many brothers and sisters who are willing to follow the Lord. If we have a heart for those who have not yet touched these precious messages, we may discover that many have such a heart.

    Now we are in Baltimore. At first there was a group of brothers and sisters who were simple and pure. Gradually, through fellowship with them, a good number began to seek after the Lord. I believe the Lord continues to work.

    Many people may not yet have come into contact with these things, but they have a heart. Once they hear such precious messages, they may follow. Therefore, we need to be broadened and give many brothers and sisters opportunities to receive help.

    Learning Through Difficult Environments

    Our environment is similar. We live in an English-speaking world, among new believers, unbelievers, visiting scholars from China, and students from China. We preach the gospel, and many believe in the Lord one after another.

    We help them pursue the Lord and grow. During this process, we have learned much. In the beginning, we read books and became excited about what we had read. But when we fellowshipped these things, people often received little help, and we became heavy.

    Formerly, we used much spiritual terminology—brokenness, the cross, and many other terms. These things may be precious, but merely speaking of them did not help. Gradually, as we ourselves came to understand a little more, our fellowship became different, and the brothers and sisters received more help.

    We did not rush people into these matters. Our hearts were there, and the brothers and sisters were willing to be led. In time, when they were ready, they received more help through fellowship.

    The Lord continues to work. We need to be broadened so that many brothers and sisters may have opportunities to receive something. Just as many new believers went to Richmond and received help one by one, we should hope that many may similarly receive from the Lord.

    I lived for some time in the Philippines, then returned to Taiwan and spent most of my time in Kaohsiung. From the time I was thirteen until I was sixty, I experienced many changes in the church.

    In the beginning, we were sorrowful and could not sleep. We prayed before the Lord and shed many tears. I saw many divisions among the churches in the Philippines, Taiwan, and other places.

    Gradually, I came to feel that the Lord is the One who continues to work. He places us in many different environments. Sometimes we are beside green pastures and still waters; at other times we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, or we are lonely and sorrowful.

    Yet we always feel that the Lord is still there, working and using the many things that come upon us so that we may grow, mature, and know Him. Inwardly, we learn how to walk and what to learn.

    The Church as the Pillar and Ground of Truth

    This morning Stephen shared that the Lord continues to work in the church. The church is the pillar and ground of the truth—not only the ground, but also the pillar.

    Paul told Timothy that, if he delayed, Timothy would know how to behave himself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

    “That thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”
    —1 Timothy 3:15

    The Lord often allows us to be in certain environments so that we may learn. Through these things, many Scriptures are opened to us. We learn what patience is, what it means to wait, and what it means to pass through suffering.

    The Heavenly Pattern and the Methods of Service

    In the Old Testament, Moses built the tabernacle according to the pattern shown on the mount. Everything was according to that pattern.

    In Numbers 7, the leaders of Israel brought their offerings before the Lord: six covered wagons and twelve oxen. The wagons were accepted and used in the service of the tabernacle.

    “They brought their offering before Jehovah, six covered wagons, and twelve oxen; a wagon for every two of the princes, and for each one an ox: and they presented them before the tabernacle.”
    —Numbers 7:3

    The question was raised: What is the significance of the covered wagons? Moses could not alter anything in the construction of the tabernacle. It was altogether according to the pattern on the mount. Nothing could be changed—not even a small detail.

    The tabernacle represents God’s church. Therefore, we believe that God has a heavenly pattern for the building of His house on earth. We cannot build according to our own preferences, cultural ideas, or what we consider beautiful in our present age.

    Some may think that the first-century pattern cannot apply in the twentieth or twenty-first century. They may say that we have advanced and therefore cannot build according to Acts or the teaching of the Epistles. But this is a great error.

    If there is a heavenly pattern in the New Testament for the building of God’s house, then we cannot be controlled by the age in which we live. We must return to the beginning and to the heavenly vision God gave from the beginning. We cannot build carelessly, nor can we alter things merely to suit the present age.

    Yet we must understand what the heavenly pattern is. It is not merely a matter of outward arrangements, such as having elders and deacons. The heavenly pattern is Christ Himself. All our building must be patterned after Christ Himself.

    Whatever is not of Christ is not right. The pattern is not an outward system. Although Scripture speaks of elders and deacons, we must remember that the heavenly pattern is Christ. He is our pattern, and we must pattern ourselves altogether after Him.

    We cannot add anything outside of Christ, nor can we change anything. If it is not Christ, then it is not of God. This is the basic principle we need to know.

    Methods That Serve God’s Purpose

    However, the covered wagons in Numbers 7 show us something concerning methods. Moses could not change what God had commanded on the mountain, but when the tabernacle had been built, the leaders offered covered wagons.

    These wagons were a practical provision for carrying the heavy boards, sockets, and articles of the tabernacle. God had specifically said that the ark must be borne upon the shoulders of the priests and could not be carried on a cart. But He had not given detailed instructions concerning how the other heavy articles were to be transported.

    Thus, those who loved the Lord could respond according to the moving of the Holy Spirit and according to the needs of the time. The wagons did not alter the pattern of the tabernacle; they served the carrying out of that pattern.

    The same principle is seen in David. Because David loved the Lord, he established groups of singers and those who served in prayer. These arrangements were not merely outward requirements; they were responses arising from those who loved the Lord.

    These are methods. In every age and place, people who love the Lord may offer methods for the accomplishment of God’s eternal purpose. But they must never alter the heavenly pattern itself.

    For example, the way in which believers worship the Lord may differ according to culture and background. Oriental people may be more reserved, while believers in Africa may express their love for the Lord through drums and dancing. If it is truly led by the Spirit of the Lord, praise the Lord.

    Others may worship quietly, as the Quakers do. They may sit together for an hour and then go home. If their hearts are truly toward the Lord, that may also be a valid expression. Methods can differ, but the principle of the church must never change.

    The heavenly pattern in the New Testament points to Christ Himself. Since Christ is eternal, the pattern is eternal. It is universal and unchanging.

    Assurance in the Lord’s Way

    How can we know whether what we do matches God’s heart’s desire? How can we have assurance that the Lord approves of what we are doing? This is important, because if we do not know, we may act foolishly.

    Many people may carry out outward things correctly and even according to the Word of God, yet still do them in the wrong way. We need assurance that what we do is right both outwardly and inwardly, especially because the hour is late.

    First, in the matter of the church, we need a clear vision. If we do not have a clear vision, we cannot have true assurance.

    “Where there is no vision, the people cast off restraint.”
    —Proverbs 29:18

    Many of God’s children, including many who serve the Lord, lack this heavenly vision. They have not clearly seen what the Lord is after today. Without this vision, we can only work according to the little that we have seen.

    History shows that a first generation may receive a vision, but after thirty or forty years that vision may be lost. The second generation may retain an outward shell or pattern while the inward reality of Christ has been lost. This is tragic.

    But this does not represent God’s ordained purpose. The first generation paid a great price to gain the vision. The second generation often receives merely what has been handed down as tradition, without the firsthand experience and without paying the price.

    Every generation must become a first generation. We must pursue the Lord ourselves and be willing to pay a price. The greatest price is our brokenness.

    Another danger is pride. We may think that we have everything. This is the way of decline from Philadelphia to Laodicea. Pride prevents a later generation from continuing in spiritual reality.

    If we maintain a heart of pursuit and are willing to pay the price, seeking to see what those before us saw before the Lord, and if we humble ourselves rather than becoming satisfied with what we have received, then God will not fail us.

    Progressive Revelation and the Living Church

    We are not perfected as soon as we see something. Paul saw a heavenly vision on the road to Damascus, but at first he saw only an outline. He needed to spend his whole lifetime before the Lord, maintaining a humble spirit and receiving more light.

    Paul said:

    “Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect: but I press on.”
    —Philippians 3:12

    We need to see an outline. If we do not even have an outline, we have no direction, no way, and no purpose. But seeing an outline does not mean that we have seen everything. The Lord continues to enlighten and reveal.

    The church is progressive. When the Lord first shows us something of what the church is and what Christ is, we begin to pursue together. The church is Christ Himself, with Christ as the Head and we as members one of another.

    If we maintain hearts of humility and obedience, the Lord will continue to reveal Himself and increase Himself within us. We cannot remain at the beginning stage. We need to continue to progress.

    The building of the church is living. It is not that we receive a little revelation, conclude that we have done well, and assume that the church is complete. No—the church continues to grow until we attain unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

    From Outward Forms to the Supply of Christ

    I would like to testify concerning myself. In the beginning, when God showed mercy to me and revealed the truth concerning the church, I saw that we should not be divided. All God’s children should be one.

    Because I saw the testimony of oneness, I left my former association with the denomination. I felt that I needed to obey the Lord and stand on the ground of the testimony of oneness in order to serve Him.

    But what I saw at that time was limited. I saw many outward things, but what I saw inwardly was very little. When we came out to serve the Lord, we did four things.

    First, when someone was brought to Christ, we baptized that person. Second, we brought them to break bread. Third, we led the sisters to wear head coverings. Fourth, we taught them to sever their relationship with denominations.

    None of these things was wrong. Baptism is not wrong. Breaking bread is not wrong. Head coverings are taught in Scripture. Separating from denominational divisions is not wrong. But we thought that after doing these four things, the church would appear.

    We went everywhere preaching the gospel and doing these things, thinking that this was how to build God’s church. But after several years, I felt that there was no way forward. Is this all there is to the building of the church?

    During the Pacific War, I was brought to India. I spent two and a half months there, largely in quietness before the Lord. Apart from reading the Scriptures daily, I read T. Austin-Sparks’ books.

    As I became still before the Lord, He opened me inwardly. He showed me that the work we do and the service we render are Christ Himself. If this is so, Christ is unlimited. We will never exhaust Him.

    If we are supplying Christ, then the church is Christ. I saw that the building of the church is not fundamentally outward. It is altogether inward. If we are not supplying Christ, then we have not even touched the building of the church.

    We may baptize people, help them break bread, teach head coverings, and help them sever denominational relationships. But unless these things arise from the requirement of Christ within, we have not built the church at all.

    When I saw that our service was the supplying of Christ and that the church is Christ Himself, inwardly I said, “Praise God.” It is exhaustless. It is limitless.

    Our pursuit and knowledge of the Lord are limitless. If we pursue the Lord more and allow Him to gain more constitution within us, then we will have a way in service. The result will be that the Body of Christ increases unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

    If what we have seen consists merely of external things, a day will come when there is no way forward, even though everything may appear outwardly correct and scriptural. We must see Christ Himself. The church is Christ, and service is the supplying of Christ.

    The Word of God and the Inner Witness of the Spirit

    How do we know whether what we do matches God’s purpose? Christ’s life within us will show us. If we obey the Holy Spirit, the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, while the mind set on the flesh is death.

    Because of our weakness, we thank God that we also have His outward Word, the Scriptures. Sometimes our inward feeling may not be correct, but God’s Word is there to correct us and reprove us.

    Through the Word of God and through the inward illumination of the Holy Spirit, we can know whether we are walking in the Lord’s way. Yet walking in the Lord’s way does not mean that we have already arrived at the goal. We have merely begun to walk.

    We must persevere in pursuing the Lord so that we may truly gain what God would gain in Christ within us. Everything is living, not dead.

    The danger is that people may receive outward correctness while lacking the content and element of Christ. Then, when the second generation comes, there is decline. God, in His compassion, allows difficulties and trials to come upon us in order to bring us back to the cross.

    These difficulties show us that outward things are not trustworthy. The Lord brings us into Christ and into the Word of God. We cannot live merely by what people say, even by the teaching of those who have gone before us. We must return to God’s Word and to Christ.

    Without difficulties, we may continue in the wrong way. In some cases, the Lord’s outward tearing down is far more blessed than the outward continuation of a wrong way.

    We cannot separate Christ from the Word. It is a great danger to desire Christ while refusing to obey His Word. Christ and the Word are one. Life and God’s Word are one; they cannot be separated.

    We should not accept the present condition as normal. The prophets did not accept the present condition. We need to stand on God’s side and ask what God wants.

    The Burning Bush and Holy Ground

    When I was young, I often asked older brothers whether I had been redeemed and regenerated. I would see brothers ministering the Word, and later I would see them occupied with ordinary matters. I asked the Lord concerning the reality of the church.

    At a conference in Hong Kong in 1983, while I was in a group meeting, I entered into the Scripture concerning the burning bush in Exodus. In that vision, I saw clearly that we are nothing but the bush.

    As we are joined together, we may go here and there, but what makes the bush significant is the fire of God. A bush consumed by the fire of the Lord is something used by the Lord.

    “Put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.”
    —Exodus 3:5

    From that time, I saw that we are nothing but the bush. We may see only that another brother’s thorn has pricked us, but we fail to see that we ourselves are also thorns joined together in the bush. Yet when there is fire and the Word of God speaks, the ground becomes holy ground.

    The Lord desires us to serve Him, and Christ within is precious. In time, I saw that this bush points to the cross. When the Lord was nailed to the cross, His crown was made of thorns. The Lord has brought us into something profound.

    When we see this, we thank the Lord. As we serve together, the Lord says that this is holy ground. We take off our sandals. The Lord comes out of us, and we come to know Him in a deeper way.

    Revelation, Understanding, and Spiritual Reality

    A question was raised concerning the difference between understanding spiritual things and receiving revelation. Many brothers and sisters hear something and think that they understand it. But is that understanding truly seeing? Is it revelation?

    Many may read spiritual books and accumulate much knowledge. Yet they need to ask whether this knowledge represents what they have seen, or whether it is merely understanding.

    Revelation is something from God. When God reveals, our mind is opened and our heart is opened. In Ephesians 1, Paul speaks of the spirit of wisdom and revelation, and of the eyes of the heart being enlightened.

    “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him; having the eyes of your heart enlightened.”
    —Ephesians 1:17-18

    Revelation comes from God through the Holy Spirit. It is revealed in our spirit. When revelation enters our spirit, there is an inward seeing, even though we may not yet fully understand or be able to explain what we have seen.

    It is like salvation. When we are saved, we know that we are saved, though we may not be able to explain it fully. Our mind and heart still need to be opened so that we may understand the revelation God has given.

    To receive revelation is one thing; for that revelation to become our vocation, our living, and our reality is another thing. It must pass through the cross.

    Whether the revelation concerns Christ, the church, or truth, it must become our living through the work of the cross. Mere understanding is not enough. Understanding takes place in the mind; revelation takes place in the spirit.

    Spiritual things must begin from the spirit, not from the soul. The mind is a component of the soul. A mind that understands something has not necessarily received revelation. Revelation is an inward seeing in the spirit.

    Once we see something in the spirit, then, through the cross, it becomes our living and reality. Today we may understand much, but lack revelation. God’s purpose is revealed to the childlike and hidden from those who consider themselves wise.

    Therefore, we must turn back and become childlike so that revelation may increase.

    Faithfulness in Service While Seeking Revelation

    A further question was raised: If all work and service should be based upon inward seeing and revelation, should we lay down our work or dissolve meetings when we are not sure that we have received revelation?

    Consider John Wesley. He came to America, worked, and failed. When he returned to England, he was not even assured of his own salvation. He went among the Moravian brethren and confessed that he did not have faith.

    He asked whether this meant that he should stop preaching, since he had been ordained as a minister and had labored for many years. A Moravian brother answered him, “You must preach faith until you gain faith.”

    We should therefore remain faithful before the Lord. We need to seek revelation, pursue the Lord, and allow the cross to make what we have seen real within us. At the same time, we should continue to serve humbly, depending upon the Lord Himself.

    Prayer

    Our time is gone. Let us have a time of prayer. May the brothers and sisters pray according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.